Note: The following post involves discussion about religion, atheism, and some of the controversy surrounding it. As this is different from most of my posts, I feel I should let you know before you get started in case this isn’t your cup of tea.
I see this message often, but I feel that an unfortunately small number of people ascribe to its message. Is it possible?
I’m hardly ever one to drone on about the subject of religion because I find that many people tend not to appreciate it. It can get uncomfortable at best and nasty at worst. But three things happened recently that brought on the idea for a post like this.
- I went to the library and picked up a copy of I Sold My Soul On eBay by Hemant Mehta
- I engaged in an hour-long discussion with Mormon missionaries in my own home
- I saw an image that said, ‘Religion: The best excuse for being f—- stupid’
These things might seem loosely related, but they display the clear differences between the way I and others who claim to be like me believe things should be. At this point in time I define myself as an atheist, but that’s the important point to make. I am not an anti-theist. I am not anti-religious. My atheism is not a system of beliefs, nor does it imply any intellectual advantages or superiority to anyone else. My being an atheist means that, as the prefix implies, that I am not a theist. And that is that. I would immediately question anyone who claims that atheism is anything more.
Two days ago I walked into the library, and among several other books I picked up I Sold My Soul On eBay. I hadn’t heard of it before, but picked it up simply because it looked interesting (which is how I have discovered many fine books). I’m not yet finished, but I’ve found that, so far, I relate very closely to the author. Also an atheist, he is one simply because he has not found anything to convince him otherwise. This has always been my stance. I am not atheist because I close my mind to all possibilities of gods, but because I simply haven’t been convinced yet, though it’s not for lack of trying. In that, he and I are similar.
So far the premise of his project (visiting many churches and writing about his experiences) was to look at faith from a non-faith perspective. He would go to churches and take part in their activities, volunteer if he could, and keep a genuinely open mind. When he was finished, he would write a critique of sorts for all to see for the benefit of improving the churches’ operations. How can they better reach out to people who don’t believe? How can they get current believers to become more enthusiastic? How can it be improved for everyone? I found this to be remarkably helpful. Churches often get a bad reputation for having rather poisonous attitudes towards people who don’t believe as they do, something I’ve found to be remarkably ineffective when it comes towards teaching and spreading the word, which is what they also claim to want. (Share the word of the lord, they say. Help others find him, they say. Unsurprisingly, insults and threats of hell do little to convince the ‘other side’ to join them.)
My own exploration of religion has been very similar to Mehta’s. Mormon missionaries visit my house on the occasion, and though I’ve seen many stories about the “most creative ways to get rid of [them],” they are welcome in my home. I’ve learned plenty that way. I’ve been to many churches and observed their services, I’ve spoken to religious leaders — the most memorable occasion in recent memory being the time an imam opened his mosque for the sole purpose of speaking with me and answering all my questions. I’ve received holy texts, pamphlets and more, and where some would take joy in trashing them, I’ve taken joy in reading them. My experiences with religion have been quite nice, and I’d like to think that it’s because I sought out knowledge and assistance, not fights.
So when I see an image like the one posted recently, I feel legitimately sad. The world and ideas hoped for by Mehta will be extremely difficult to reach because everyone is so concerned, and even angry, over what other people believe. There is no difference between the person who says you’re destined for hell if you don’t convert and the person who says that you are an idiot for believing something they don’t (something I loosely reference in a vlog I made about religion and labels). Between both sides hurling nearly identical insults at each other, I’ll hear plenty about why it’s fine when they do it and how there’s no hypocrisy involved whatsoever.
As an atheist, I’d like it to stop. I don’t want religion gone. I don’t want religious people gone. I don’t find myself to be superior to anyone else. I find myself to be just another human being with unique beliefs, just like everyone else.
I also want to point out the difference between atheist and anti-theist, because I’m tired of the angry vocal minority ruining the reputation of one of the few labels I’ll ever refer to myself by (something I’m sure many people of faith can relate to, especially if some moron who claims to share your beliefs just murdered someone or blew up a building).
I’ve had so many wonderful discussions with people of faith, read many wonderful books, and most importantly, learned a lot. Through meeting other people and treating them as such and keeping my mind open to new possibilities, I’ve maintained a relative security in my own beliefs without being threatened by others. I know that what I’ve done isn’t for everyone, but honestly, I wish it were. I wish that people would avoid letting stereotypes and temptations of conflict rule their lifestyle. I’m sure it feels good to insult others for their beliefs, but when it comes to maintaining a sense of community and peace (something most people regardless of belief would agree on), it does little more than break the fragile hold on peace we already have.
I wonder why it seems too much to ascribe to the idea that people with different beliefs can get along. Perhaps it takes a certain maturity and outlook on life that some people have yet to grasp, though I doubt some ever will. Eventually that’s what I’d like to see. I’m not sure if I ever will, but I see no reason to stop pursuing that end.
I find the more time invested into understanding my own thoughts and feelings, the better able I am to understand others; and all their various views. In truth, is not everything interconnected?
I think that’s important as well, taking time to explore your own thoughts and ideas. At least if you’re relatively confident in what you believe, looking at contradicting beliefs is a bit easier.
That was a lovely post, thank you for this! You hit the issue right on the head. “As an atheist, I’d like it to stop. I don’t want religion gone. I don’t want religious people gone. I don’t find myself to be superior to anyone else.” I completely agree with this. If everyone was the same exact way, this world would be awfully boring. I too am an Atheist, but I realize that some people seek religion for self-improvement. There are non-religious extremists as well as religious extremists. Why can’t we all just coexist and live in acceptance, no matter our religion, race, or sexual orientation?
Cheers!
Essencia the Patient
Unfortunately there will always be violent, greedy and sick people. It’s just a fact of life. What is more unfortunate is that the rest of us see those negative things and use them to further the divides we’ve already set up. ‘Welp, that person killed a bunch of people and said he was religious. Clearly all religion is bad and all religious people are bad.’ We let the bad people influence our discussion and mindset and tend to completely ignore anything positive. If anything mentions religion in a positive light, weeeeelllllllllll we’d better ignore that. I think we’d be much better off if we let the positive aspects of things take place in our conversation for once.
(Also, this is completely random, but night elves ftw.)
It always seems to me that the loudest people are the worst of any bunch. The Christians have Westboro, atheists have anti-theists, Republicans have Rush Limbaugh, the list goes on. It doesn’t matter how small they are because they have a mighty big microphone.
Pretty much. Getting along with others might be a nice way to live, but it doesn’t drive up ratings and profits. There isn’t much attention to be spared for those with views that aren’t extreme in some fashion, which kind of sucks.
You want everyone to play nice, yet you take no time to look at the harm religion does to society on the whole or the role that moderate believers play in supporting the most caustic of believers. So while you get to sound all nice and conciliatory your endeavors manage to miss out on all the real issues.
If I were to write all my views in this one post it would take far too long. But I do acknowledge the negative aspects of religion as well, of course, and I don’t think that religion should be immune from criticism. (If anything else, it should be subjected to it more than most things.) But we should blame people as much as we should religion. Criticize religion for its archaic practices and ideas, criticize people where it is appropriate. When you have someone murder others or fly a plane into buildings, that’s not solely religion, that’s a warped mind that has been taught that these things are okay. Blaming religion is the easy way out, completely ignoring all semblance of personal responsibility.
So while I totally acknowledge that there’s plenty to criticize, I don’t believe that excuses stereotypes and generalizations. Like I said, I always hear about why it’s okay when one side does it but not the other. If reason is what atheists espouse, then I suppose I don’t find that very… reasonable.
On a final note, I don’t think you and I would disagree that much. We simply differ in where we focus. I for one acknowledge that bad things have happened, but don’t think that means we can’t focus on anything positive. I spend so much time around friends of mine who are devoutly religious, but who also stand with me when it comes to championing civil and equal rights, and they are equally vocal about saying, hey, those extremists don’t speak for us. I see so many examples of people of varying faiths (and lack thereof) getting along just fine that the idea of such volatility over different beliefs is completely foreign to me. I think that we can talk about the good things and be civil to each other without ignoring the problems that need fixing.
It is good that some believers will call out the crazies but it’s a shame they do it so quietly. Do these believer friends believe the world was flooded? Do they believe fossils were all created in the flood or placed there to fool us? Do they think the entirety of the known universe was created just for humans? Do they ignore science or denigrate it?
I find that many believers claim to have the truth yet ignore or mock actual truth as discovered through science. When people ignore science they are prone to doing crazy things because the magic man told them to.
No matter how mild or liberal a believer might be, their religion is less a free exercise of superstition and more a symptom.
If we look at Christitanity: for all the things the Christ supposedly said that were supposedly good he did not say things like:
- slavery is bad, don’t do that
- dark skin is not the mark of Cane
- take care of your children, honor them, don’t rape them
- wash your hands, clean them often to get rid of germs and here’s a recipe for making soap
- women are equal to men
Often enough, it’s more important what was not said than what was said. Think about it. Even the liberal Christians are supporting those that proliferate anti-gay bigotry, anti-science rhetoric, and gender inequality
I’m willing to wager that you probably think faith healers are con-men but they are selling the very same thing the Christian bible does… even when it is preached ‘liberally’ .
If I may ask, how many people of faith do you know? It seems that most of your points are based on general assumption rather than first hand knowledge and experience. My believer friends vary in degree of devotion, but most all of them accept and practice science as readily as us nonbelievers do. Many of them are in scientific fields, like medicine and technology. Even my very most devout friends who I’ll commonly see posting Bible verses on Facebook accept science as much as anyone else, and look at anyone who doesn’t as ridiculous. There’s this idea that science and religion are mutually exclusive, and idea that so many people prove wrong every single day, but they don’t seem to get much attention. And this is why I can’t agree when you issue a blanket statement like, “Even the liberal Christians are supporting those that proliferate anti-gay bigotry, anti-science rhetoric, and gender inequality.” I don’t know of a single one of any of the people I know, no matter how loosely, that supports any of that. Some people do that, sure. But again, generalizing.
I also don’t know about them doing it quietly, either. That seems unfair. For example, did you hear about the pro-American rallies after the attacks on embassies in the middle east? Where crowds of Muslims took to the streets with signs like ‘Chris Stevens was a friend to all Libyans,’ ‘USA we are sorry, we are sad,’ ‘Benghazi is against terrorism’ and ‘Thugs and killers don’t represent Benghazi nor Islam’? I wouldn’t blame you if you haven’t. Not many places seemed to want to report that; I found the photos on a random Tumblr post, not any media. But if we can get crowds of Muslims in the middle east in the streets expressing pro-American and anti-terrorism sentiments (the former especially I’d imagine not being too popular), and that’s not loud enough, then I don’t know what is.
As for the rest, I can only really agree there. When it comes to things that are said, things that /aren’t/ said and the interpretations that are often brought about from both, those are the things that should be criticized. Most definitely. When it comes to the content of holy texts you won’t find much argument from me on what needs work or what isn’t or shouldn’t be relevant today. But judging people solely by the labels they apply to themselves is illogical (see Neil deGrasse Tyson’s talk on labels, he puts that point so eloquently).
You really hit the nail on the head with this one, at least as far as I’m concerned. My husband and I are atheist and living in an area that is overwhelmingly Catholic has given us more than out share of headaches. We have always had the attitude, “Believe whatever the heck you want, just please don’t cram it down my throat” and have made great efforts to keep our opinions on others’ beliefs to ourselves, but others have not been so kind to us. As an example, when we were getting married one of my coworkers asked me, “If you don’t believe in God why would you bother to get married? A marriage means nothing without God.” I was flabbergasted. It was with incredulous disbelief that I told him I was getting married because I was in LOVE and that my belief or disbelief in a higher power had absolutely nothing to do with that. In another example a different coworker told me that I was evil for not getting my daughter baptized because if she were to die he soul would go to hell. What a thing to tell someone!
I know that obviously there are atheists and members of every other religion who are just as close-minded and ignorant, but this has been my personal experience and its ridiculous and hateful and I only pray (ha!) that my daughter doesn’t have to deal with people like these when she’s older and decides what her beliefs are!
Yeah, unfortunately there are those crazy ones. I remember when I was a kid, some guy on a bike with a massive wooden cross screamed at me when he discovered I didn’t go to church. I’m pretty sure I’ve also been called the anti-Christ on a few occasions. But I think opinions are slowly shifting, or at least the people who would do things like that are becoming fewer in number. New generations growing up, even if they are religious, tend to be a lot more accepting of most people!
Your headline reminded me of this article: http://on.msnbc.com/Xz1vX8
I found it to be a good read.
While I agree with you that there are “bad apples” on both (all) sides, I have to admit that I find religion/dogma more harmful than not. A dogmatic mind can’t be an open mind, and I find an open mind much more valuable, if not superior, to a dogmatic mind. There I can point out where I have my problem with all sides: Some atheists or anti-theists are guilty of being dogmatic as well, and those that are, simply are an atheistic kind of religious.
Yeah, if you get down to comparing the two types and simplifying it, then I can see how religious mindsets might be at the very least more resistant to change. I know both sides can have its closed-minded people, though one side already claims to have all the answers. Though I suppose what I try to press is looking at people as individuals, not by what labels they attribute to themselves. Once we get past the idea that it’s so black and white, or past the idea that we already know everything about someone based solely on one thing they believe, then it comes a lot easier to interact with people and have a discussion.
No idea if this would be of any use, but check out Louie Giglio’s message “Fruitcake & Ice Cream.”
Hmm. I might look into that. I saw a bit of him on YouTube and he’s got a good speaking style, that much I can say.